Fake slab on eBay

[wwwww]

http://ebay.com.au/itm/332908308013

[Basil]

Thanks for making the effort to post Walter,i think the old style PCGS Holder was faked/counterfeited in the States as well.

Edit...my Brother found this article on fake Sparkplugs of all things,Ebay has sure opened a Pandora's Box.

https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/warning-beware-of-updated-fake-ngk-iridium-ix-spark-plugs-how-to-spot-them-august-2017/

[runway]

What a grub + $15 postage wow
I sent seller a message but guess what no reply

[purplepennyhunter]

Seller is a pawn shop, they probably had no idea even though now they've enabled the trading of a fake through their lack of knowledge. The expectation is that a coin in a PCGS slab has those guarantees of authenticity and buyer comforts that they are making the right choice. These counterfeit slabs are upsetting for all concerned. Hopefully it's now off the market, perhaps it's the pawn shop that's taken the hit here, but maybe the eBay buyer. So sad. It might be me that breaks this collectors heart somewhere down the track.

[notcb]

For the benefit of the members of the ACF, can you explain exactly why the coin/slab is a fake?

If you type the number 14303288 into the PCGS website it comes up as a known coin.  Is the 0.64 added to the 17941 the clue?

What other steps should a potential buyer go through to verify the authenticity of a PCGS coin, given that many of the early PCGS slabs did not have the hologram image?

Cheers

Peter  (notcb)

[Mister T]

Not sure but going by the reverse the coin itself certainly looks fake.

[jens coins]

The seller had 3 different lots of US Morgan dollars that have sold as well.
They seem to be not very straight in the slabs so are they fakes as well?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1878-8TF-MORGAN-DOLLAR-PCGS-MS-65-COIN/332908471321?hash=item4d82e42419:g:X8oAAOSw-rxb~iXE

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1889-0-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-PCGS-MS-65-COIN-1/332898547094?hash=item4d824cb596:g:TnMAAOSwUxlb948F

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1881-CC-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-PCGS-MS-64-COIN-1-MS64/332863225208?hash=item4d8031bd78:g:PQAAAOSwj81byA~P

[fred lever]

Hang on, is the SLAB a fake or the COIN a fake?
The slab number comes up in the PCGS registry ok?
If the coin is a fake  on what basis is it called a fake?
I'm confused, somebody put me straight.
Fred.

[nealeffendi]

Hi Fred
Fake Centenary in a fake slab. Fakers use the number of a genuine Centenary slab so it stops detection by looking up the slab number. They made sure to use an older number that was around before they started taking photos.
Perhaps the pawnbroker didn't know it was a fake. Perhaps the previous owner who pawned it did (or perhaps he didn't). Would be hard to prove who originally struck the fake and who (perhaps another scammer) put that fake in a fake slab.
Needs to be an online list of reported fakes. Raw fakes, fakes in fake slabs, fakes in genuine slabs and genuine in fake slabs (that works for putting say a cheap cleaned/doctored genuine coin in a fake slab and passing it off as a nice MS coin). Put the lists by country, denomination, die markers, slab numbers etc and let the sunlight shine on the cockroaches.
Do any of the TPGs have such publicly viewable  lists? (HAHA, not :@ )

[notcb]

I am confused now.  

The original post stated that the item was a fake, presumably based on a rather poor quality image and an older style PCGS holder that does not have the PCGS shield – or did the poster have other information not specified with the listing?

Based on some explanations that have been suggested about counterfeiters using older registration numbers and the older style PCGS holders, does that mean that we should be suspicious about any claimed PCGS item using older registration numbers and older style holders?

There is another 34/35 florin currently listed on Ebay (item 223264502717, registration number 13300247) - am I to be immediately suspicious about that listing as well, despite it checking out on the PCGS registry?

If this is the case, then PCGS has a major problem.   Over the years, I have given friends and relatives, PCGS slabbed sets of coins of their birthdates - am I to respectfully now seek them out and apologise that some of these early slabbed coins might be fakes?

So I return to my original question – what characteristics of this particular coin make it a fake?

Cheers
Peter  (notcb)

[drakesterling]

I am confused now.  

The original post stated that the item was a fake, presumably based on a rather poor quality image and an older style PCGS holder that does not have the PCGS shield – or did the poster have other information not specified with the listing?

Based on some explanations that have been suggested about counterfeiters using older registration numbers and the older style PCGS holders, does that mean that we should be suspicious about any claimed PCGS item using older registration numbers and older style holders?

There is another 34/35 florin currently listed on Ebay (item 223264502717, registration number 13300247) - am I to be immediately suspicious about that listing as well, despite it checking out on the PCGS registry?

If this is the case, then PCGS has a major problem.   Over the years, I have given friends and relatives, PCGS slabbed sets of coins of their birthdates - am I to respectfully now seek them out and apologise that some of these early slabbed coins might be fakes?

So I return to my original question – what characteristics of this particular coin make it a fake?

Cheers
Peter  (notcb)

Hi Peter, 

In this case, the appearance of the certificate is wrong (fonts, colour, etc). I would go so far to say that it is very obviously wrong, but many might disagree.

The coin itself is also fake, although this is harder to pick.

Fake coins make up a small quantity of the items that appear on Ebay. Fake PCGS slabs are an even smaller percentage. Worrying about buying one would be like worrying about getting a fake $50 note in your change - sure it might happen one day, but a little vigilance usually stops the scam in its tracks.

Unless you have been buying from non-coin dealers or non-collectors (like pawnshops, as in this case), odds are that the coins you have are almost certainly ok.

Eric

[nealeffendi]

Fake coins make up a small quantity of the items that appear on Ebay. Fake PCGS slabs are an even smaller percentage. Worrying about buying one would be like worrying about getting a fake $50 note in your change - sure it might happen one day, but a little vigilance usually stops the scam in its tracks.

Unless you have been buying from non-coin dealers or non-collectors (like pawnshops, as in this case), odds are that the coins you have are almost certainly ok.

Eric

Gotta disagree with you Eric. It depends on which coin you are talking about. As an example: of the 5 most recently listed 1938 crowns (by 4 different seller IDs) only one seller had  genuine crowns.
Centenary florins are nearly as bad.
Though yes, fake slabs are a much smaller percentage.
A little vigilance can only work if you know exactly how to spot the fakes and even then there are enough fakes out there of a very high grade that fool the most experienced collectors. To spot some fakes you literally need to know the die markers for every genuine die pair (possible with the 1938 crown and the Centenary, but almost impossible with most coins).
Also a little vigilance only works only works if you have a lot of knowledge about the most minute details of each of the variations in the slabs, how many of us collectors can list the differences in the labels of just the green label PCGS slabs? I can't, heck I couldn't tell you off hand how many types of green labels there are. :scratch_one-s_head: For the fake in the OP I can't say what makes the slab fake (Kudos to Eric that he can) although I can spot the coin itself is fake. 
So where does that leave 90% of collectors who can't spot a fake slab or fake Centenary? And being Christmas how many fakes are being purchased by non collectors as gifts for their hubby, dad, nephew etc and probably don't know the difference between a APCGS, PCCB and a PCGS slab?

[autocoupler]

http://ebay.com.au/itm/332908308013

Just trying to validate one of the characteristics that would determine this coin is a fake. I remember reading in the forum years ago that one of the key pointers is that the hooves of the horse slightly indent into the horizontal bar upon which it stands. The coin in this post appears to indicate exactly that?

[serenitystan]

PCGS- are not stupid. They know that plenty of there slabs where being faked. That's why they decided to place a pic of the coin with the verification code. They don't give a stuff about all the other slabs without a pic. I bet the poor bloke who bought the florin and the pawn shop owner will not be buying any PCGS slabed coins without a pic. Also the word will get around not to buy a PCGS slab period, unless it comes with a picture of the actual coin. This will hurt sellers/dealers who have the older slabs. I have not been bitten but i,m now TWICE shy. NO picture No Buy....

[drakesterling]

PCGS- are not stupid. They know that plenty of there slabs where being faked. That's why they decided to place a pic of the coin with the verification code. They don't give a stuff about all the other slabs without a pic. I bet the poor bloke who bought the florin and the pawn shop owner will not be buying any PCGS slabed coins without a pic. Also the word will get around not to buy a PCGS slab period, unless it comes with a picture of the actual coin. This will hurt sellers/dealers who have the older slabs. I have not been bitten but i,m now TWICE shy. NO picture No Buy....

And there are more Australian PCGS-graded with pics than without, so that's good news. If one has a lot of coins in older PCGS holders, he or she might have to send them back to PCGS under their "reholder" service to get the images done. It's not exactly cheap, especially for small quantities, but it is an option, especially for more valuable pieces. 

Eric